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Forum:Canon sources for coordinates
This discussion was started at Talk:System Transponders. Posts relevant to this discussion have been copied here... began regarding whether or not to merge coordinate information with individual planet / system articles. See the original source for more information... *The reason Ord Mantell is not "in there" is because it has not been added to SWINFO. And, judging by past trends, it probably won't be there for quite some time. This is one of the prominent reasons as to why the Wiki is much more effective and efficient than SWINFO. Besides Ord Mantell, there are several planets/objects that should be removed from the list as well. Also, another issue I must stress is that the position of systems/planets is not canon, not correct, and only relative to the game's code system. That's it. That's where it ends. There could very well be a reassessment of what the coordinates are for these/any celestial objects, but again, this is up to the admins' prerogative. Now, I could certainly add a coordinate field to the template, sure, and I could do that in the next day or so... but I'd like to see something done regarding the issues I've mentioned above. -- Hawke / Rtufo 06:10, 5 March 2007 (UTC) ** "...''not canon, not correct, and only relative to the game's code system..."'' I would submit that not canon doesn't mean incorrect, and relative to the game's code system means that it is correct. If the field represents the In-Game system coordinates and the value of the field matches the In-Game system coordinates...that's accurate information. If at some point the administration decides to reassess the coordinates and bring them into alignment with other sources, the updatable nature of the wiki will make that easier. Everyone is equally welcome to suggest that course of action to the admin staff as others previously have; however, until it happens, the current data is correct as it corresponds to the most canon resource we have, the MUSH. I'm not sure what other course of action you're considering / suggesting or think we're in a position to demand. Perhaps a good next step would be a forum post listing the 'right' coordinates? In my experience, the more worked-out an idea is, the more likely it is to get admin approval. -- Xerxes 18:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC) **That is why I originally posted that info on here. Because updating the information on a wiki is much more simple than updating information on the MUSH command SWINFO. And about this data not being canon to the Star Wars universe, I agree. But this is a wiki for the MUSH and not a Star Wars Wiki (like Wookiepedia). So this information, in my opinion, is correct for the MUSH, and should be added here. I really want to hear more about your thoughts.--Aayla 18:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC) ***I second Xerxes and Aayla on this one. "Canon" as it relates to this wiki is in reference to the MUSH and NO OTHER SOURCES. Period, finito, end of line. Further, this wiki is not an intrinsic part of the MUSH, it is an optional supplement. The MUSH dictates what appears on the wiki, NOT the other way around, and that is not something I can ever see changing. Nor would I want to. As to your other issues, Hawke, take them to the MUSH admin if you want to, but raising them here and not there isn't going to get you very far. -- Del from Xerxes about the original topic... *I think this article is perfectly fine as it is - it provides a quick reference to system transponders without having to go to each individual planet article to search for their coordinates. I say have the information on their respective articles, but also keep this one. Furthermore, I do agree with Hawke that the MUSH should reflect the canon locations of planets in the galaxy (having Coruscant being on the other side of the galaxy from Chandrila is absurd!), but as it stands, these are their official "coded" locations and shouldn't necessarily reflect their IC locations. When I was RPing out the Blitzkrieg, I didn't use the coded coordinates as my reference - I used the actual SW galaxy map. That's why I was able to blockade Coruscant after capturing Chandrila; if we used its coded location, it would have been useless. But ICly, CHandrila is located a few hyperspace jumps from Coruscant, so it works out ICly. Never let code get in the way of RP. --Danik Kreldin 22:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC) **Also, I know that there is a movement going on on the MUSH to improve/change the space system. Perhaps now would be a good time to request that the coded coordinates be changed to reflect IC? For instance, Coruscant being located at 0,0,0. (Sorry, Planet Starbucks.) --Danik Kreldin 22:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC) ***Agreed, and I think somebody taking a shot at coming up with that list (using the galactic map and Coruscant as an origin point) and posting it to the forum for discussion / reference is a good way to go about that. -- Xerxes 22:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC) post from Xerxes about the original topic... :- To the above... ""Canon" as it relates to this wiki is in reference to the MUSH and NO OTHER SOURCES." :I emphatically beg to differ; the very foundation of this Star Wars MUSH, and any Star Wars MUSH, is that which is canon in the Star Wars Universe. This MUSH is not exclusive unto itself. Whether or not it progresses from the baseline (such as a third Death Star destroying Sluis Van, a canon planet) is not the crux of the argument; however, any alteration to the baseline (such as claiming Luke Skywalker is not the son of Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader, or that Wookiees are only four feet tall and hairless, or that Corellia is "next door" to Coruscant) is, and should not be undertaken. Similar grievous "manglings" would include playing a Basic-speaking Jedi Ewok, or that Darth Vader didn't die, or that a space station is the center of the galactic map (0,0,0). :That last one, by the way, was instituted by a former admin who didn't care a rip about the story (both the progressed story as we (the playerbase) shaped it or told it, and the baseline foundation story) and just wanted to dictate and dominate the MUSH as he saw fit. The trouble is, the admin, or those folks building the systems, just don't seem to do enough research into, or stay abreast of, the baseline story. -- Hawke / Rtufo 07:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC) *I actually agree as well that the coded coordinates should be more accurate and according to the canon Star Wars Galaxy Map. But still, as Danik said "Never let code get in the way of RP". Yet, getting this issue to admins and changing the way things are, could take a lot of time before it is done. For my part, at the moment, I believe it is best that we go with the coordinates we have, add them on each planet's page but also keep them on this one for quick reference.--Aayla 13:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC) -- Hawke is right about other canon sources. They exist. Obviously, they exist. There's the movies. There's the novels. There're sourcebooks. And, there's a SWINFO (or is it NEWS?) topic that covers what sources are considered canon by the MUSH. My point is that the true primary source, the MOST canon, the source that trumps all others is the MUSH itself. It's our game and we play it the way we want. To say that the other canon sources provide an unalterable baseline is incorrect. By example, I give you midi-chlorians. According to the prequel trilogy, a canon source, all Jedi's have little microbes in their bloodstream that provide them with a connection to the Force. Minkar has stated, repeatedly, that midi-chlorians do not exist on SW1, and never will as long as she's in charge. MUSH trumps other sources. We don't redefine things as major as Luke Skywalker being the son of Darth Vader (at least not intentionally), but that's not to say that we couldn't if there was good reason to. Now, you can point to the admin of the past and cry foul, assume that they're evil and were out to get you. In regards to the map, I tend to believe that 10 years ago we just didn't know any better. Of course, the real problem here isn't whether or not the MUSH is the proper source. What we're saying is that the CODE SYSTEM isn't the proper source. In my experience, people RP according to the canon galactic map that Hawke and others have made available. So, this whole thing is about a conflict internal to the MUSH. There's what people think and RP, and what's configured in DSpace. Honestly, I think this whole conversation is an exercise in futility. Everyone actually agrees with everyone else... we're just a cantankerous bunch who enjoy being right and dissecting the comments of others. -- Xerxes 14:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC) DSpace saw the position of planets (like so many things) pretty much distributed at random, often in direct opposition to known sources. Ten years ago some of us knew better (and the information was freely available), but the folks plunking down the planets didn't care. When it comes to actually dealing with this in RP... I honestly ENTIRELY disregard the coordinates in D-Space, in particularly those which have the CDU stretched across the length of the galaxy and refer folks back to the map. I've also passed on a plot wherein the planner insisted it was approximately 20 minutes travel time between Caspar and Tatooine ICly, and had made this assumption an inflexible core premise. I regard the map that we have here as the 'true geography' and refer folks to it when they want to know where we are in the galaxy. That said, I can see the value of including a list of D-Space Coordinates... as long as the list specifies that it IS D-Space coordinates. Some manner of 'your mileage may vary' disclaimer may be appropriate on account of the planets having been dropped with all the care of an angry monkey flinging its excrement. --Mahon 18:25, 6 March 2007 (UTC)